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Discussion keeps the world turning. This is Roundtable. Happy New Year everyone! As we step into 2025, let's take a moment to look back at trends in socializing, mastering new skills and entertainment preferences of 2024. We've also got your unforgettable model stones, memories and moments that made the year pop. Stay tuned for all the juicy highlights. Coming to you from Beijing, I'm He Young, joined by Lai Ming and Steve Hatherly in the studio. First on today's show. 2025 is officially here, ready or not. Let's rewind and reflect on the vibrant year of 2024, a year where sugar-free socializing and DODS meetups became the ultimate way to connect, from reinventing social places to embracing new ways of learning and consuming entertainment. Young people in China have been leading the charge in reshaping how we interact with the world around us. So Lai Ming, you know what young people are doing in China. Does he? I'm not sure. I would assume there will be... Is this our go-to correspondent on this topic? Kind of old. No, you're forever young, my friend, and you do research. You keep in touch and, you know, in tune with what's going on in China. So how do young people prefer to socialize? Well, apparently they're into something they call a zero-sugar socializing, and very interesting, not something that you would commonly use for something outside of coke. But anyway, they're borrowing the concept from beverage marketing strategies, and they're using it in the field of socializing. And now zero-sugar socializing means today's young people do not want to overly rely on others for emotional value, and they want to maintain a certain distance from those around them in social interactions. In this way, there won't be excessive social expectations. While maintaining one's personality, it can effectively avoid the pressure brought by social interactions, keeping one's social behaviors in a more relaxed and free state. Are there pressures with social interactions? I find these terms and this topic interesting in the sense that it's kind of an intangible thing. You can't put your finger on this, right? So what does it mean that there's pressure in social interactions these things? Well, there are extroverts and there are introverts. I'm sure you are familiar with that. Of course, but there have always been extroverts and introverts and ambiverts, which is the combination of the two. Right. So I'm just wondering, is this social pressure somehow new or is it just that it's always been there and it wasn't really clearly defined before? Well, I would think that it's always been there because like you said earlier, there's always introverts, there's always extroverts. But we are talking about a trend that we notice over the internet. And I think that makes a difference because, well, the extroverts will presumably be out there talking to people, partying, they don't have time for anything over the internet. Whereas now we're getting tendencies, getting the latest updates from the internet. Then presumably these are all introverts. They spend time over the internet, they talk about their quirky preferences and tendencies. So I think they shape the dialogue and discussions over the internet, which is why zero sugar socializing is now dominating the discussion because this zero sugar socializing sounds suspiciously like the evasive kind of character in the category of introverts. I mean, you're not particularly introverts to the point that you don't want to go out and socialize with anybody at all. You're not a recruits, but you are the kind of person who wouldn't initiate contact with somebody unless it's absolutely necessary. But once you are in contact with people outside, you may be able to enjoy that connection. So the evasive kind of character, I think that's the point that we're talking about with regard to zero sugar socializing. To have this kind of successful relationship, I think that you need to have all parties on the same page. And it kind of reminds me of dating in the sense where if one person is looking for a serious relationship, you know, you go on this first date and you know what you want before you arrive at the first date, right? One person is looking for a serious relationship. The other person is looking for something more casual. Well, right from the beginning, that doesn't have a great chance of success, right? We can apply this to friendship as well. If one person is looking for a partner, a friend to hang out with all the time and go do stuff with all the time and talk deeply about their emotions with, but the other is looking for a zero sugar relationship, well, then that's not going to work. However, if both parties are into that more casual friendship where there's less pressure about sharing your deep feelings, then in this case, this can be successful. And I think it can be really successful in the sense that you don't have any expectations. I think friendships a lot of the times fail because one person might have too high expectations of the other person. And when that other person doesn't come through, then even though there were no promises made per se, then still there's a level of hurt that exists there and it damages the friendship. Right. So the pressure might arise from the accusation. How dare you, Steve Hathley, go on and have Malatang didn't ask me about it and didn't invite me there. No, it's true. I asked him for a recommendation for Malatang just a couple of days ago, and I didn't even invite Liming to enjoy it with me. How rude. So some members of the society might feel that that is a kind of a stress. If I fail to ask my friend for Malatang, will my friend feel bad about our relationship? It was zero sugar, Malatang. What can I say? Well, I suppose definitely maybe this can only happen in the 21st century when the internet is everywhere. So pervasive. And because these folks, they're looking up for potential suitors. No, that's not the right word. Okay. A potential friend or just a dad or this person online. So it's almost like all people who are looking for this online and you come together, you kind of have that shared expectation to a certain level. And that is great in the internet world, but also I would possibly argue that this might not have all that much to do with the personality of extroverts or introverts or ambiverts in the middle. Because in China, if you're fully immersed in the Chinese way of dealing with social relationships, I think most of us, regardless of our personalities, we feel a little bit of the stress or pressure that is you're building on your guanxi or your connections. And then with that, it comes with expectations, like you mentioned, Steve, and then it's such an integral part of how the social roles interact with each other. And I think for a lot of us, you just feel like if you want to have a relationship with someone, then you got to participate in some shape or form in those more traditional relationships. And that's why when we're looking at today, or actually in the social relationship trends of 2024, the things that pop up all have this shared prerequisite. That is, we want low commitment relationships, but we still want to interact, and we don't just want to be strangers that we have nothing in common or that kind of thing. Right. So I guess it's about accumulating more shallow friendships. Shallow, well, shallow, it has a negative connotation, doesn't it, that word, but I don't mean it negatively. I just mean surface level relationships. So you accumulate more of those, as opposed to having one or two or three deep, deep, deep relationships or many deep relationships. And therefore, you still get the fulfillment of the social interactions, but you don't get the pressure of the deep relationship. Right. I think the term guanxi might be specific in the Chinese context, but I think the concept is not entirely exclusive in the Chinese culture because in the West you have the term for networking. So I think the game or the practice of helping people know each other, specifically in the Chinese context, if you are invited to a dinner, if you know that this is a relatively stable relationship and stable network that you already have, what is customary for you to bring somebody else that the others don't already know to sort of expand and broaden the network. And that can be a burden and stress. And it's a game in and of itself. Not everybody is in the game, not everybody enjoys it, but it's just a game that we play socially. Whereas now I think with the rise of the internet and the ease of making friends outside of our usual and normal daily contact of people, I think people now have greater tendency to enjoy other parts of their lives. And not every kind of relationship is based on helping expand our network, exploring possibility of the future cooperation, that kind of thing. So which is why, yeah, there is a far cry from the older traditional practice of getting more people in the network and expanding ads and then get things done. Yeah. And also even the word friend sounds like too much pressure for some people. And that's why they go for the other alternative with less pressure and less expectation attached. I was just about to ask, you mentioned that term before. What does that mean? Well, it's a term we use to describe the people we invite or we get on board when we do things, very specific things. For instance, in the office, you might notice I go to lunch, work lunch with your hall lane very often. But when she's not around, I turn to somebody else. And there's the dazu when people go to get hot water. It might be a different group of people when they do a different type of activity. So it's not like we are bonded forever. We get water together. We go to lunch together. We get off work together. We do everything together. It's not anything that permanent. It's more like a modular kind of relationship. When you do this, you get this model in. And when you do that, you get this model, but only that the models are people. And on social media, it's everywhere you see these posts of asking or looking for potential dazu. So this is like a temporary companion. Temporary is the key word here. So even when let's say, you know, for the new year's vacation, you want to go to a new city and you don't have a friend coming with you, just go online, go to maybe one of these platforms and shoot a message. Let's say going to Qingdao, Beijing to Qingdao at 9am tomorrow morning, looking for a dazu. And then somebody will come up and say, oh, I'm going to and let's go together. It can be as casual as that. So people are using in China social media platforms to find these temporary friends. I feel like that's not the scenario based scenario based friends. It sounds so analytical. Yeah, right. Again, not friends, just a companion. So I guess another example might be if you're going hiking, right? If you want to go to the Great Wall and go for a hike, but you don't have anybody to go with, you go on social media, say I'm going to the Great Wall at this time. Anybody want to go? Yeah. And then your relationship is in that particular moment on that particular day. Yeah. And who knows? I guess it may blossom into a friendship. It may. But it may not. And that's totally okay. That's totally okay. People going into that kind of relationship, knowing what to expect. To avoid becoming socially awkward. I mean, actually, this is something I've always thought like, let's say in the US or in the UK or what, especially with those married people, often they have parties with married people. And then you have to bring someone with you. And I just feel that's a lot of pressure for us, you know, single and fabulous people. So I've always thought, oh, wow. I mean, yeah, I actually do have a friend who could accompany me to those. Like the stand in boyfriends type. Like otherwise I'm perfectly fine going by myself. But if it's like a couple's thing, then yeah, I mean, there are these pressures and things and then people, oh, and with the dots of thing, it's more like you don't really want to show up alone sometimes. And sometimes as a woman, I can particularly say this, if you go hiking or go to some of these events that you've never been to, it just feels kind of safer to have a weight man with you. But hopefully, well, coming with a stranger, though, doesn't sound like a great idea in terms of safety, but I can understand why having a plus one, however you can find this person, can become useful from time to time. So it's not that Chinese younger people or younger Chinese people are not socializing. It's not like people are just staying at home and playing video games or watching movies or whatever. I'm surprised they're not because I'm still under the impression that they're still wiping on their smartphones and looking for friends. Yeah, but it's just that people are now socializing in a different way than they used to socialize. It's kind of a cool trend, I think, because it's not about being shy, is it? It's the exact opposite. Young people are willing to go out there and meet new people. It's just like I said in the beginning, there's no expectations for the relationship whatsoever, which keeps things nice and light and fun and airy. And yeah, it's fantastic. Absolutely. And that is definitely a relatively new trend that's been blossoming in China in the last couple of years. And what are the preferred ways for them to learn? Apparently, young people are going to night schools these days. What? What? Awesome. Night schools. Yeah. That's been years since I heard the word, because last time I heard, I think it was in the 1990s when my parents were talking about, you know, it was the age of reform and opening up and all of a sudden people realized that they didn't know enough. They haven't received proper education enough to be able to do things that they wanted to do, which is why night schools were kind of a thing back in the days. And why is it a thing now? Well, this is from China Daily and this is from June of this year. And it's not about going to school in the evening to take classes like accounting or bookkeeping or things like that. It's more by the sounds of things, hobby-based. And night schools across the country have become kind of a hot thing. In March of 2024, there was a report from Xinhua news agency that talked about the fact that in Shanghai, there's a place called Shanghai Citizen Night School for Arts, and it launched 680 courses for the spring semester. That is, I don't think my university had 680 different courses. Anyway, listen to how many people were attracted to this. 730,000 students for their online classes. That's one example. Here's another. In May of 2024 Wuhan Youth Night School, they served more than 8,000 students with 228 courses, which pales in comparison to the 680 courses from the other program, but still a huge number of classes available. And like I said, it's not about studying accounting at night. The classes offered there were ranging from tango to the type of dance, to street photography, to hand brewed coffee, to graffiti psychology. I didn't even know there was graffiti psychology. Lots of different types of things. And yeah, there are sciency things offered too, mineral identification and collection for two reasons. And how cool that these types of classes are offered in the first place, and how cool is it that young people are finding an interest? You know, you go to your office job from nine to five or whatever it is, and then in the evening time, you seek out things that you're interested in. I love it. I think it's fantastic. It's nice to have something to do rather than swiping on your phone and looking for the next short video that you may or may not enjoy. Yeah, I noticed from the recent topics on Roundtable that maybe there's a tendency already that people have grown rather sick of, you know, short videos and smartphones, and they've grown very perhaps this what might add extra stress or burden on their eyesight or their eye health. And now they're looking for something more real. And fun, you know, I think now people find perhaps staying at home in the evening and watching TV or watching your drama or whatever, for hours after work is not fulfilling anymore. So people want to get out and they want to learn something fun. And it's the night schools that have taken up that role to fill the void, which is really unexpected for me. And also apparently these night schools offer really affordable tuition. Yeah, they have offers of trial classes, which is a really great idea. Because for people who, you know, may not want to commit for, you know, three or four months or however long a program might be, and they might not know that they're interested in tango, but they want to give it a shot. Have you ever taken a dancing class, Lymie? Not at all. I thought not. Not even for free. I thought so. I just wanted to confirm. But yeah, those types of things are available. So you can take a class, a trial class for as cheap as 9.9 yuan, for example, that's about $1.30, $1.40 per class. So you can do it on a class by class basis if you want. And there's proof that this is popular because the search volume for the keyword trial class has increased over 350% month on month on demand service platform, Meituan. Yeah. Well, there might be a catch here. And that is, unfortunately, on the course providers, that is, you know, for trial classes or the trial product of any sort, usually they come in free or at a dirt cheap price, like you just mentioned. And the intention is that, oh, you've had a sniff of this. You're going to love it. And then you'll pay for the actual thing. But these smart young people, sometimes they're only here for the tasting. Yeah. I mean, I once took a one day Norwegian food cooking class. It wasn't in Beijing. It was in Korea. But I just found it by scrolling online. And I thought, well, I'm not doing anything today. And I didn't do the Daiju thing. I didn't go online and advertise that I'm going to Norwegian cooking class. I went by myself and I think it was $15 or $20 or something like that. But it was there was a Norwegian person to teach you. I don't know if they were, I don't know who they were. But anyway, they taught me how to make some Norwegian food. And it was really fun. I really enjoyed the afternoon. Now these options are available on the platform, like you mentioned earlier, Meituan. And I think it's good for whoever that's running these courses to come up with free trials or affordable trial courses. Because when people are booking their trials, you leave data on these platforms. And the more trial courses you can offer, the more data you show. And perhaps that would help attract more people to your course. Of course, the only cost is that when you are doing these trial courses, you're not exactly making money. But who's to say? I mean, even influential, very successful businesses, they spent big money on making their services known and promoting their products. And so that to me is a form of promotion. Yeah. I was teasing you before about the dance class. The reason I brought it up is because my wife has been pushing me to take Latin dance. So we went one night to a Latin dance event that was happening. And I tried. I tried. That's the point, right? I tried. I think so. If it's my wife pushing me to do that, perhaps I'll do it. Yeah. I mean, it's not like I want to learn to dance. It's more like a relationship maintenance kind of. Yeah. I don't think I have a career as a Latin dancer in the future, but at least I tried. Not ever, yeah. And that's the point, right? Is that young people are out there, they're trying these new classes to try to find a new hobby. It's really wonderful. And aside from these things, young people are finding new ways to enjoy their free time and enough people doing it, it will become a trend. Bathing centers that offer fantastic facility of bathing, but it's a public area and also sometimes offering you spas and massages of all sorts. And apparently people can even go for a buffet. So tell me how popular is this bathing trend? Well, young people aged 25 to 35 take up over 50% of customers in bathing centers in cities such as Beijing, Shanghai, Wuhan, and Xi'an. And data from May 20 in August, 2024 showed that the search volume for bathing increased by 40% on the platform and the search for keywords related to bathing and accommodation has grown hundreds of times and the search for bathing and buffet has also tripled. In the beginning of 2024, the bathing service in northeast China became popular after many people from south China enjoyed it. I have to say that the kind of cultural shock is at play here because coming from southern China, we are used to taking baths at home and not even baths with showers at home and individual booths, there was not exposure, no contact with other people. So and then moving to Shanghai and to my university years and my first shock of my campus life was going into a public bath and then everybody takes off their clothes and walks naked into the shower. That was mind blowing. So it took me a few more years to know that in fact in northern, even more northern part of the country is apparently a culture for people to hang out in bathing centers and then they get dressed in the PJs or shower robes and they don't just take showers because that could only take five, 10, 15 minutes. There are a bunch of activities that can do like play marjot and have snacks and buffet. Sometimes they snack and they go to take a bath and they come back, they have more snack and they continue eating and then play marjot. I don't know. It's an occasion rather than a daily routine. It was a culture shock to me too. This is a part of the common culture in Korea. Well, there's two types. There's sauna or sauna, which is only the different hot and cold tubs. And then they have jimjilbang, which is the hot rooms and then the common areas where you sit and eat food and there's restaurants there. And yeah, when I first went to a sauna, the public bathhouse, that was a very, very shocking experience for me. In Canada, we don't have anything like that, but you quickly adjust to it and it's very relaxing. It's a great way to spend the day. So this culture then for young people in China, this would be something perhaps that the older generations would comfortably do, but younger people would shy away from, I guess. In the past it was, but now young people are leading to a charge and these are an upgraded version of the traditional bathhouses. Sure. You get a buffet too. Oh yeah. The old days, much more humble. Now, fancy. From these playful connections to relaxing retreats, 2024 showed us that the Chinese youth are all about keeping it light, fun, and meaningful. And here's to carrying the vibe into 2025.