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Today's special edition embarks on a unique dialogue as we celebrate a milestone in history, which is the 60-year diplomatic relationship between China and France. The relationship between the two countries has spanned decades, with diplomatic ties dating back to 1964 when Charles de Gaulle established formal relations with China. 60 years later, what outcomes has this relationship delivered? What is it really like for a French business to grow and thrive on Chinese soil nowadays? To mark this momentous occasion, I am joined by Mr. Frédéric Babier, a Frenchman who's been spending over a decade living and working in China and observing the exchanges that have taken place between France and China. As the general manager of a French cooperation's China and Asia-Pacific division, Frédéric, along with his French and Chinese colleagues, aim to bridge the gap between the two vibrant cultures. So please join me to hear Frédéric's first-hand account of the strategies and insights that have propelled his company to success as well as some survival tips for anyone seeking to unlock the vast potential of the Chinese market. Thank you very much for joining the interview today, Sir. Shall we start with a quick and brief introduction of yourself to those of us who's not really familiar with what you do? I started in 1999, did six years in the US, then four years in France, then went to China for four years, four years in India where I was the CEO for the Indian entity, and then back to China where I am a general manager for the Asia-Pacific region. And we have one plant based in Tianjiang, which is in west Guangdong. So we had 25 years in SGD Pharma and we have been in Tianjiang since 1998. Wow, more than 25 years. That's like a long time in Tianjiang. Yeah, exactly. It's a longer partnership with the city and the city has been very supportive over the years of our operation. At some point, for many, many years, we were the only foreigner entities and now they are starting to be more. In Tianjiang, they have the BASF, the German company, which is investing 10 billion euros. So it's a very big investment. So I have side activities to my job. So I'm vice president of the French Chamber of Commerce and Industry. That is to support French companies when they want to come to China or Chinese companies when they want to go to France. And so I spend some time on that. And Sir, do you happen to know why your company invested in Tianjiang at the turn of the century, which is like 26 years ago? Do you know what about that particular Cantonese city attracted your company in the first place? In fact, we did not build the plant. It was built by the government. And so we did a joint venture first because the company wanted to enter in the China market. So we first did a joint venture and then the city wanted to sell the second half. So we bought the second half because it was the opportunity. Yeah. And what is a normal day like for you under such a role? Like what do you usually do? I don't have a very routine days. There are always many different things because I'm in charge both of the sales, the production and the P&L. So many different things depending on the need. There is one thing that I'm trying to do, which is to spend 10 percent of my time in topics of corporate social responsibilities, so decarbonization, support of the part of the society that is in need and giving back to the city of Tianjiang. So, for example, last week we started our new furnace. It's an event that happens every 10 years. So we lighted the furnace with a ceremony. So basically we took a flame. It's an old flame because it was kept alive in a bank for more than 10 years. And because again, it's tradition, it's the way it's done. And so we brought the flame to the plant. We gave it to the torture bearer like the Olympic Games. The first ones were the employees with the highest seniority. So 30 years with us. Then it went from one person to the next and one manager to another, one engineer to another. And this human chain included several of the experts that came from France to help us build the furnace. It went to the French Consul General, which came for the occasion. The flame then went also to a government official because they are highly supportive of the farmers, and we are very appreciative. So it's a partnership. The government official from Tianjiang City was at the ceremony for the furnace lighting, right? Yeah, of course, of course. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah, of course. And the representative of the Tianjiang government. Then we went to plant mangrove, wang chulin, because we support the plantation of mangrove as a corporate social responsibility. Tianjiang has more than 25% of the mangrove in China. Yeah. And President Xi Jinping, when he went to Tianjiang a few months ago, he went to visit the mangrove, and he really pushed the companies and the government to promote and protect the mangrove, because it's one of the pearls of Tianjiang. So we are following in this direction. We are planting mangroves, so we started with 100. Now we are at 1,000. By end of 2024, we'll be at 10,000 trees. By the end of 2025, with the French Chamber of Commerce, we are launching a mangrove together initiative, inviting all companies in China and abroad who want to participate. And we hope to reach 100,000 trees by end of 2025 and 1 million by end of 2030. We do that in partnership with the Mangrove Foundation to promote the mangrove of Tianjiang, and to also help to promote Tianjiang itself, to foreign investors, French of course, but not only French, to try to say, yes, come to Tianjiang, you will see it's a beautiful city and has a lot to offer. Yeah, and it sounds to me like as part of the leadership of your corporation, you've also been participating in a lot of the company affairs, and it's all under the same goal, which is to deeply combine your company's daily producing and manufacturing work together with the local development in Tianjiang and Guangzhou. Right. In fact, we were chosen for being a keynote speaker on the HeForShe event, which was launched by the United Nations. So the French Chamber of Commerce does one event per year in China, so there are people from Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, to basically explain what we do for the women in our employees. And I'm using this example because if you have parity of women and men into your team, you will have a better financial performance. So it is the right thing to do. So same thing with supporting the biodiversity, the city, and if you do good, good will come to you. So my job is to maximize profit, but supporting the city and supporting people in its right thing to do morally is also bringing more value to the company. So far, what's your comment on the local money-making future prospect? It's very challenging to make profit for a foreign company in China if you don't do the things right. But if you do, then you can make profit and good profit. So now we are profitable. We deliver cash and we grow. We just invested 25 million euros in our furnace to continue to grow. So it is possible. It is not easy. And you need people who are able to do the bridge between their quarter way of thinking and the reality in China. So you need to be able to have people who can do this cultural bridge in a respectful and intelligent manner. And if you have that, you have a better chance to make money in China. So by doing things right, you mean to be the bridge, to understand cross-cultural differences and also be able to understand the local economic situation and everything and then make decisions to actually try to make profit, right? Yes, indeed. And to find the right teams, to help them grow. So you have to do many things to be able to reach profitability in China. But it is possible. And China is a very big market. It's a growing market. It's a very good place to be. The Chinese government has a very long-term view on how to build the future of China. And what they are doing is very commendable. You can see now what is done on the green energy, electricity, for example. All the electric cars, all the green electricity generation. I mean, it's extraordinary. It's best in the world. And it's the same thing in many different industries. So it's a very good place to be. You have been staying here for seven years, right? Seven plus four. Four years the first time. And also you had brought your family here with you as well. Yes. Do you see China as a suitable place to live? Yes, sure. It's a very good place to raise your children. It's very safe to a level that people in the US or in Europe cannot comprehend. It's very safe. It's very well organized. It's very high-tech. There is supportive government for supporting foreign investment. And so, in fact, in Guangdong, you have the Greater Bay Area. And many cities are very good to go to. And of course, my preferred is Xinjiang. The city of Xinjiang is offering a lot of support for incoming investors. You have so many work. You have so many titles. What are you like outside of work? Do you like spend the evenings with your children? Or do you like, say, go out to have fun with them during the weekend? Yes, of course. It's much more important to be with your children than working too much. So, yes, I spend as much time as I can with my children. You cannot sacrifice that. So, yes, it's important for me. And for some more lighthearted questions, any tips from you to whoever that's interested in making a life or trying to do trades here, any survival tips as a French person for whoever that's interested to come into China and seek opportunities? The first one is that you should not listen to the people in your own country that are saying that China is scary or China is complicated or whatever. They don't know because they are not in China. China is a wonderful country to live in. It's not easy because obviously the language is different. And it's obviously different from your own culture. But it is a very good place to be. It's again, very well organized. So my first comment would be, don't be scared. It's good to come. And the second comment to survive. So a lot of Chinese speak English. And you can definitely survive without speaking Chinese. But I would recommend that as a newcomer, you try to learn Chinese. And this is on the try because it's complicated. But you should still give it a lot of energy. It will help to bridge the gap with the people you will meet. It's important also to be interested in the culture of China. China has a very long culture and has a lot to offer. If you come to China, you should embrace and try to learn as much as possible. With books, visit places. There are wonderful things to see in China. So don't be scared to come and don't be scared to try to learn as much as you can. And talk to Chinese people. Eat Chinese food. It's very good food, especially in South China and in Xinjiang. If you come to Xinjiang, I'll show you good food. But I guess this tip is for every culture. But as Chinese culture is different from European culture, you need to make the effort to learn about it. Do you think this kind of bonds between the two nations is helping people to gain faith or have more confidence with building a life here or investing a business here? Yeah, I think the relationship, the friendship between China and France is strong. Actually, there is this year a lot of exchange both in China and in France at the minister level. And President Macron of France was in China, actually in Guangzhou last year. And I have good hope that he will come at least once a year. That's what he said he wanted to do, to continue to build the long term relation between the two countries. So, yes, there is a high level of mutual interest in this relation. And it is the right time to come to invest in China. Oh, yeah. And let's say that there are French people coming and also French enterprises coming. What will you tell them regarding the biggest difference between our way and your way, say the Chinese way and the French way? What are the biggest differences and similarities? There are a lot of similarities and there are a lot of differences. But I think if we take the French specifically, I think the love of good food is very similar. The food is very different, but it is very good on both sides. And China is a big country. Wherever you go, you will have different food. It's a little bit the same in France. There are different regional specialties in France and in China. And it's very interesting to go and discover and try new things. There's one similarity. I have not worked in France for many years. So maybe it has changed a little bit. But from when I left France, the speed of business is not the same. In China, it's very fast. In China, you have WeChat. So you might have clients or team send you WeChat later at night or in the weekend. And the speed of business is much faster than it was in France when I used to live in France. So maybe it's not the same today. And the speed has increased. I don't know. But in China, it's very fast. You must be very reactive, take decisions and act with intent and purpose in a rapid way. Were you ever annoyed by having to receive text messages or meeting alerts during the weekend or in the evenings? I'm used to it. And it's part of what it is. Plus, I think potential investors should not be too afraid either. I have a lot of side activities which also take time for me. So therefore, I have more influx of messages. But on that general statement, even during the day, the demand for decision is faster than in Europe. You must take decisions. You don't have time to do three meetings on it. The clients want a decision. The production wants a decision. We need to be fast. That is, I think, something that is very cultural and that is maybe challenging for newcomers. And I guess it is also challenging when you go back to your country to adapt to the change of pace. But I'm happy to live in such a fast-paced environment. Could you please briefly describe about why you want to stay here in China? I know you've touched upon how safe it is, how good it is a place for you to raise kids, of course. And also, I know that initially you came to China because of work. And ever since 2017, you've been remaining here. So do you see you and your family staying here in the near future as well? Definitely. It's the place I would prefer to stay for the long term. It's a lot of work. So it's not a wasteful place for professionals. But I am very happy to be here. There is a lot of growth opportunity for the company. And there is also a lot of opportunity for me as a person to create value, both for my city but also for the French business community in South China. And anyway, I cannot live until we planted one million mangrove trees. So I have first to deliver on this promise and then we will see after. With that, we conclude this episode. Thanks for listening. I'm Yu Shan. If you're interested in hearing more about the lives of ordinary but incredible people living in China, follow us wherever you get your podcasts. We'll see you next time. Thank you.